Despite many possible name suggestions, none of them seemed compelling enough to justify the costs of changing the name away from PythonCard which has been in use for almost three years now, and has some, though limited, brand identity. Thus, the package will be released as PythonCard for version 1.0. Since we may revisit the name change discussion in the future or other projects might find inspiration below, I'll leave this page in the wiki for the sake of posterity.
-- KevinAltis 2004-04-26
A recent thread on the mailing list has reopened the issue of changing the name of PythonCard to something more descriptive. You can add whatever comments you want about changing the name of the project below. If you add a comment or make a name suggestion, you should add yourself to the Contributors section below.
Where did the name PythonCard come from? Well back in January 2001, Dan Winkler (yes the same Dan Winkler from the original HyperCard team) registered the PythonCard project on SourceForge. The textIndexer sample is a port of the tkinter code Dan did to experiment with text searching in Python.
In June 2001, Ron Stephens replied to a message thread on event driven GUI programming in Python and suggested the name PythonCard.
When I went searching on SourceForge for the name I found Dan's project, contacted him, co-opted the project, started a new mailing list, and the rest is ...
... we ll we're still deciding ...
Meanwhile, you might also want to read the early posts from the mailing list to get an idea what we were thinking a year ago.
If people really are either confused or turned off by the name, then we should certainly abandon it. I am unconvinced that there are many people in that camp or that they can't learn to adjust. It's not like PythonCard is a worse name somehow than Quixote or Apollo.
If we change the main project name to something else, I can use PythonCard to name the app I plan to build on top of this substrate that will resemble HyperCard much more closely.
The project is about a year old, and while there have been thousands of downloads of various versions of PythonCard, we obviously haven't reached a majority of the Python users or people that might consider using Python if there was an easy to use desktop application building tool and framework for Python. So, from that standpoint, the sooner the name is changed the better. We have reached a level of functionality and quality of the tools that the number of people likely to give PythonCard a try will be accelerating quite a bit from now on.
Kevin reports that at OSCON last week in San Diego, Guido (among others) said they felt PythonCard was a "bad name" for the product. I think that may be the clincher for me. We need the Python community behind us and if Guido has any negative vibes about this tool, that will absolutely inevitably hamper our efforts. So while I personally still think PythonCard is a great name, I'm willing to concede at this point.
I have added some other name ideas that occurred to me today below.
We do have a certain amount of momentum behind the name. It's not a fatal reason not to change, but it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, either.
The folks who have been involved from the beginning had a certain vision that was very HyperCard-like. If that vision is intact, then I think the name should remain as well.
Any project name change will require changing over the existing SourceForge project. We would likely end up leaving the PythonCard project intact and just directing people to the new home, but it will still cause some confusion over the status of the project.
- new mailing list
- new web site
- large one-time update to all documentation, readme files, etc.
- new cvs
- new package
Given the time and effort that will be required to switch everything and the likelihood that I will be the one doing the work, I do not want to make the change without a strong replacement name and agreement from many people on the list in favor of the new name.
I have paid in advance for the pythoncard.org domain to go along with the project. I only paid for a few years, so it isn't a total waste if the domain isn't used, but I don't want to have to reserve another domain name unless we come up with something really good.
Once Kevin makes his presentation in San Diego at OSCON (Open Source Conference), I think we've crossed the proverbial Rubicon on the name of the product. Not only will the attendees there be exposed to it, but so will anyone who ever visits the O'Reilly site to see slides, from now until doomsday. Among those at OSCON will be key influencers. I think we have to just decide to live with the name. (Of course, it doesn't hurt that I like the name!)
The project name versus the package name
The name of the package itself, which is currently 'PythonCardPrototype' is expected to be changed to PythonCard as the API settles down. Some people are probably turned off by the 'Prototype' in the current package name, but it was chosen to make it clear that the API is in flux and that nobody should expect code to run unchanged between releases, even though the required changes are generally small and all samples and documentation are updated to reflect the current API whenever a change is made.
Obviously, if we are going to end up changing the project name, the package name will end up changing as well, so I suppose there is even less of a rush to remove the 'Prototype' from the package name.
New Name Suggestions
[DGS] I don't like Monty. Enough with the Monty Python allusions already.
Bruce Eckel suggested:
- GPython (for Graphical Python)
[DGS] - 6/21/02
Of these, I like PythonView the best. I don't know if it's yet the best we can come up with, but it's not bad. GPython seems like it promises more than we can deliver. We're not allowing people to program Python graphically.
[DGS] - 6/21/02
I still think PythonCard is just fine. But if a significant number of people disagree, then I would suggest we try to come up with a name that is descriptive of what we are trying to do with PythonCard. To that end, perhaps some variations on:
- GUIMaker (maybe we don't need to be explicitly Python connected in our name?)
[DGS] - 7/31/02
I can't find any reliable references to an existing PyGUI, but there is a GUIPy that is apparently part of Jython.
[EHH] - 6/22/02
I've been lurking for a long time. I was attracted to the project because of the name. (I don't like the name 'Monty'.)
[DGS] - 6/24/02
I wonder how many other lurkers like Ed are out there who were attracted to the project because of its name? I bet it's not inconsiderable. Of course, most of those folks are probably coming from an original Mac orientation, which may or may not serve them well when they get to PythonCard if they do so before it's really running smoothly on their platform of choice. But that won't be more than a few weeks, is my guess. And we won't do a 1.0 release before then anyway, I suspect.
[DGS] - 6/24/02
It might be worth at least considering hooking more tightly to the wxPython bandwagon:
I'm not advocating here (I still prefer PythonCard) but just trying to stimulate more thought.
[DGS] - 7/31/02
More ideas for the new name for our beloved PythonCard (not all of them serious...right?):
PyFace (I find this whimsical and self-describing)
PyInYerFace (sort of kidding)
PyTin (it's what you put your pie in, no?)
- PrettYFace (playing with capitalization on the PY)
- PyGUIMaker (combining two of Bruce Eckel's ideas above)
I think we do need to stay with being very explicitly Python in the title of the product, FWIW. Python is our differentiator, but more importantly for at least some time to come it's our primary audience.
[SPW] - 7/31/02
I agree that Python should be mentioned in the title, but I am not at all keen on the of PySomething. I'm afraid I tend to associate names of that form with simple libraries or poorly written sourceforge projects - there are some good modules out there with that kind of name but PythonCard is much more than just a module, it's pretty much a complete platform in its own right. In my opinion it deserves a name that stands out, not just another PyName
[POB] - 7/31/02
Some more ideas, just for grins or to rule them out as bad:
- VIPython (Visual Interfaces With/In/For/? Python)
- Vipper (Like Jabber, but not anywhere near as good a name.)
- PythonGAB (For GUI App Builder. Yuck.)
PowerPython (Anyone remember PowerBuilder?)
I give up.
[RPD] - 7/31/02
Perhaps the struggle with coming up with a name is because we are trying to name too much, and so nothing fits. The thing formerly known as PythonCard is much more than a GUI framework although that is what some people think of it as. Others think about the tools (or potential tools) and not much about the framework. So what if the framework and the collection of tools were named separately? Would that make it easier to name them? Afterall, Mozilla has its Gecko and a host of other cutely named components.
That said, I'm afraid I don't have any good suggestions... All that comes to mind are these:
- TUPGUI (For the framework, stands for "The Ultimate Python GUI")
- PAB (For the toolset, stands for "Python Application Builder")
The second one conjures up another name: Pablum. It is the name of a vitamin enriched cereal that is fed to small children. That could be a good metaphor for what PythonCard is trying to be, something that is easy for newbies to digest that is full of power and provides good building blocks for their future development. So, can anybody come up with a good acronym for PABLUM?
[D.G] - 7/31/02
Here's a few suggestions from left field:
- Pywinder (Python association, Windows pun - Another winder'in kit, Rhyme with Sidewinder, another snake, "Wind" inclusion..possible child's play association, Potential "Wunderkind" association for our Germanic friends.)
PyGlass (Association With Spy Glass, visual cue , Most windows are made of glass like material.)
My 'votes' go to PyInterFace , and PyTin (what can I say, it's got poetic appeal.. sounds like a heavily accented Python, Python+Interface ). I also like GUIMaker (attracts newbies from all realms.), but it has ~300 google hits.
Sorry to add hum-drum to an aging debate, but VIPython reminded me of VI vs. Emacs wars, and similar problem with name association with other 'bad taste in mouth' development tool memories (HyperCard being the most obvious.)
Finally, although pablum has a great defenition, my wife has informed me that it has connotations of appeasing the masses with something less than what they need, 'television is pablum for the masses', or an oversimplification.
[POB] - 8/1/02
Came up with a few more while chatting with Dan Shafer:
SnakeCharmer (I think someone else suggested this on the list)
It seems like we've got Pie themes, Snake themes, and Abstract themes. I'm just glad it won't be my decision to make.
[KEA] - 2002-08-03
At OSCON, after Guido said he didn't like the name, my wife made several suggestions as a play on Guido's name: Guidojo and Gui Do and GUI Doh!. My own humor contribution was TkDieDieDie, but that has nothing to do with Guido. She also came up with Easy as Py, which someone else has contributed.
[MDH] - 1/14/03
This may be moot, but how about:
Sorted List Of Suggested Names
s = """ * EasyAsPy * EasyAsPy(thon) * ezPython * GPython * GUI Dojo * GUIMaker * HumblePy * PAB * PowerPython * PrettYFace * PrettyPython * PyFace * PyGUI * PyGUIMaker * PyGlass * PyInYerFace * PyInterFace * PyMaker * PyTin * Pythonator * PythonBuilder * PythonCharmer * PythonGAB * PythonScreen * PythonUI * PythonView * Pyvarium * Pywinder * SnakeCharmer * TUPGUI * VIP * VIPython * Vipper * wxPythonBuilder * wxPythonGUIBuilder * wxPythonIDE * wxPythonMaker * yzPython """ l = s.splitlines() l.append(" * YourNewNameSuggestion") l.sort() for name in l: print name # Paste results back into the Wiki page. ;-)
- [KEA] Kevin Altis
- [DGS] Dan Shafer
- [EHH] Ed Hagen
- [SPW] Simon Willison
[POB] Patrick K. O'Brien (Mr. PyCrust)
[RPD] Mr. wxPython
- [D.G] Dean Goodmanson